17 weeks don t feel pregnant mumsnet

Being short of breath in early pregnancy may feel more like a heightened ... third trimester when baby might be pressing upward – it shouldn't be a concern.The expecting mom told others the only name she and her partner agreed on was "Halo," just like Nick Cannon's 12th baby, born on December 14. She added that her surname will be "Raye" and ... coolmathj April 2021 Birth Club 17 weeks and don’t feel pregnant. s. Sazj882022. 7. 1. ... But it could still be a few weeks, so don't worry. ... need to talk about the pregnancy more than your partner does; not feel like sex as ...Doulas are individuals who support women and families to try and help them have a positive experience of pregnancy, birth and the first few weeks, or even months, of newborn life. They can support women in all kinds of labour situations and different kinds of births, from home deliveries to c-sections, and then help support them in their early ... what counts as cocsa Apr 29, 2016 · 29/04/2016 at 2:54 am. Hi all, Looking for some reassurance. I am 17 weeks pregnant and up until last week I had bad morning sickness and my tummy was starting to go a bit round and a little harder. I was also feeling butterfly feelings for about 2 weeks. This week I am on holiday so am very relaxed and not doing much. Good luck. BrittnyS10 member. November 2015. Well, you are in second tri, a lot of those symptoms like morning sickness and exhaustion etc, often lessen or maybe even completely subside. Not for everyone of course. Maybe part of why you feel like you have less of a bump is because you aren't as bloated. land for sale hertfordshire At 18 weeks pregnant, you should be able to feel the top of your uterus way between your pubic bone and your navel. It will feel like a firm, muscular ridge which doesn t yield when you press gently down. When you go for your ante-natal appointments, the size of your uterus will be checked by your midwife or doctor every time.Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. 5 bedroom house for sale shropshireYour pregnancy symptoms in week 19 Overheating in pregnancy. You may feel warmer in pregnancy. This because of hormone changes and an increase of blood supply to the skin. ... Pregnancy and work. You don’t actually need to tell your employer that you’re pregnant until you reach week 25. But if you tell them now, you can both start planning ...At 25 weeks, a pregnancy is 6.25 months along. According to WebMD, in the 25th week of pregnancy, a baby is in its 23th week of development and measures 8.8 inches from the top of its head to its bottom. The average weight of a fetus during...Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. 1965 wood snake horoscope 2023 bekav 30/03/14. I'll be 17 weeks in 2 days, and I don't feel pregnant at all.. it's been this way throughout the whole time I've been pregnant.. I have to keep reminding myself when I go to do things I shouldn't, like drink too much caffeine, use certain cleaning products, etc. I'm just scared that not feeling like I'm pregnant may mean that ... Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. Countdown to pregnancy site says 47% bfp by 9dpo and 66% by 10dpo. At 9 DPO, you're still nearly a week away from your first missed period. 9DPO positive test. Although pregnancy tests aren't always accurate at this stage, some people experience pregnancy symptoms at 9 dpo. I got a negative First response pregnancy test and am devastated.Pink Sweat$ - 17 [Official Music Video] - YouTube 0:00 / 3:00 #PinkSweats #AtMyWorst #PinkPlanet Pink Sweat$ - 17 [Official Music Video] Pink Sweats 1.78M subscribers 11M views 2 years ago...Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. demon sex comic 2022. 7. 1. ... But it could still be a few weeks, so don't worry. ... need to talk about the pregnancy more than your partner does; not feel like sex as ...The pain was significantly less with my next two pregnancies. I usually have tender bbs every month, that usually feel heavy. The tenderness and heaviness goes away when I get af. haven't felt the pain in awhile #2 LoverB , Apr 22, 2011 Msocwife Pregnant with #1. 6dpo stabbing pain in breast. 16 weeks pregnant. 17 weeks pregnant. 18 weeks pregnant. 19. hi moms im supposed to be 16 weeks. towards the end of 15 weeks, ... Should I be feeling movements?. Mumsnet.mumsnet.com·@mumsnet·. Mumsnet is the UK's largest website for parents. Today it is 35. anonymous on December 02, 2011: Hi there my hcg was 79 on day 13 of ovulation . 14 dpo ... one4allgiftcard co uk Jan 20, 2023 · Jan 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM. I have had a super hard pregnancy. I'm only 29 weeks. Baby is measuring 12 days ahead, and no one will change the due date. My mental health has taken a toll. I have never felt sicker for the first trimester before. I am having regular contractions with no clear medical cause. I don't sleep well. Sep 18, 2017 · Nearly 17 weeks and dont feel pregnant anymore, can anyone relate and explain. e. EmilyF2310. Posted 18/9/17. So i will be 17 weeks pregnant in about 2 days, my bump seems to have shrunk, i started feeling baby move really early, about 12 weeks as this is my second child, and the movements have been getting stronger but the past 3 days i havnt ... erotic nude galleries I’m 9 weeks 5 days. Not nearly as sick as last pregnancy but constantly nauseous , weak, exhausted, dizzy. Just wondering when this will end? Have people… Mar 24, 2019 · 17 Weeks Pregnant Belly. There is no denying you are pregnant with your 17 weeks pregnant belly. With you gaining 1-2 pounds a week people are sure to notice your cute little 17 week baby bump. Continue to take weekly pregnant belly pictures so that you can remember these moments. It will be fun to look back on to see just how big (or little ... It was updated on November 26, 2020 by Ariane Signer. Many pregnant women will not experience the stereotypical symptoms that generally accompany pregnancy. Nausea, …I'm pregnant with my first and started feeling the flutters at about 16 weeks. I felt a few things before that but I wasn't sure if it was wind or baby but was clear from 16 weeks it was baby. I'm now just over 21 weeks and have felt kicks and flutters for about a week. It's so nice to feel and you can get an idea of how big she is and where ... sturdy bunk beds for adults Tenant troubles leave Cape mom and son living out of a car after a dispute with the City. A third of Britons believe a woman who acts flirtatiously is partially or completely to blame for being raped, according to a new study. His wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit and his two daughters, 17-year-old Hayley Petit and 11-year-old Michaela Petit, were ...The meaning of the number 17 In the Bible is that of "overcoming the enemy" and "complete victory." God overcame the sins of rebellious humans when he began to flood the earth through rain on the 17th of the second Hebrew month. Noah's ark and its eight passengers rested on the mountains of Ararat on the 17th of the seventh month (right in the middle of God's annual Holy period known as the Feast of Tabernacles). egg retrieval experience mumsnet At 25 weeks, a pregnancy is 6.25 months along. According to WebMD, in the 25th week of pregnancy, a baby is in its 23th week of development and measures 8.8 inches from the top of its head to its bottom. The average weight of a fetus during...Ireland Baldwin isn’t changing her ways just because she’s pregnant. The queen of the racy Instagram selfie took to social media Monday night to share a series of photos showing off her baby ...The expecting mom told others the only name she and her partner agreed on was "Halo," just like Nick Cannon's 12th baby, born on December 14. She added that her surname will be "Raye" and ... 1955 brooklyn dodgers jersey You and your baby at 17 weeks pregnant Your baby's development By the time you're 17 weeks pregnant, your baby is growing quickly and now weighs around 150g. The eyebrows and eyelashes are beginning to grow. Your baby's eyes can move now, although the eyelids are still shut, and the mouth can open and close.2014. 8. 18. ... Hi there, I'm 17 weeks pregnant (first pregnancy) and since Saturday morning I have been really worried as I just don't feel 'pregnant' ...Pain, bleeding or spotting. Pain in pregnancy doesn't always mean that there is a problem. Some women feel discomfort as ligaments stretch with the growing ... salesforce layoffs 2022 And the day before the meal, as suddenly as it had started, the nausea stopped. I was 10 weeks pregnant. I didn't feel perfect, but I certainly felt a lot ...My Top Tips For Expressing On The Neonatal Unit TalkMum | Lat Modified: 17/09/20 We're Sharing The Story Of Elizabeth And Her Tips For Expressing On A Neonatal Unit To mark World Breastfeeding Week, we're sharing tips for expressing when your baby is on a neonatal unit, from the importance of support though to celebrating your journey. With thanks to Elizabeth for sharing her story, and to ... canadian companies that sponsor foreign workers Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. dr pimple popper blackheads whiteheads Apr 29, 2016 · 29/04/2016 at 2:54 am. Hi all, Looking for some reassurance. I am 17 weeks pregnant and up until last week I had bad morning sickness and my tummy was starting to go a bit round and a little harder. I was also feeling butterfly feelings for about 2 weeks. This week I am on holiday so am very relaxed and not doing much. Doulas are individuals who support women and families to try and help them have a positive experience of pregnancy, birth and the first few weeks, or even months, of newborn life. They can support women in all kinds of labour situations and different kinds of births, from home deliveries to c-sections, and then help support them in their early ...They do not increase in pain level. If you are unsure whether your contractions are labor pains or Braxton-Hicks, call your doctor.Weight gain is essential for a healthy pregnancy. But, how much weight should you gain? It varies by BMI. Here's what you need to know. can you return clothes to zara after 30 days I've got to 17 weeks and should be feeling excited but I am worrying that I don't seem to have any pregnancy symptoms really. The only thing I still have from the 1st trimester is not wanting to eat pasta. I keep reading things saying about feeling movement or flutters but I haven't felt that. Is it normal to not feel much? ThanksJun 24, 2020 · I’ve got to 17 weeks and should be feeling excited but I am worrying that I don’t seem to have any pregnancy symptoms really. The only thing I still have from the 1st trimester is not wanting to eat pasta. I keep reading things saying about feeling movement or flutters but I haven’t felt that. Is it normal to not feel much? Thanks OP posts: Mar 24, 2019 · 17 Weeks Pregnant Belly. There is no denying you are pregnant with your 17 weeks pregnant belly. With you gaining 1-2 pounds a week people are sure to notice your cute little 17 week baby bump. Continue to take weekly pregnant belly pictures so that you can remember these moments. It will be fun to look back on to see just how big (or little ... blue line pregnancy test faint line There are days where she is so active and the kicks are so strong and other days where it's so subtle , I second guess if... 23 weeks on 1/5 and haven't felt movement in a day. Normally I can feel baby moving quite a bit, but the last 24 hours or so I haven't felt baby move at all and I'm trying to not to freak out.Mar 22, 2012 · 22/03/2012 at 5:12 pm. Baby still has a LOT of room at 17 weeks, so you may not feel regular movements for a few weeks yet, especially if it's just flutters your feeling now. Baby can turn around so it's back is to your front, and it will still have a lot of room in there to 'hide'. 0. Anonymous. vintage tonka dump truck 2020. 9. 2. ... All moms-to-be know how they feel. What many don't know is that bouts of nausea and uneasiness can also be experienced in the super early weeks ...The downside is that people feel free to intrude into your life. Try to let it wash over you. 2. Don't listen to other women's bad birth stories. Some women hang around, Ancient Mariner-like ...Mar 8, 2021 · It's possible to be pregnant and have no pregnancy symptoms, but it's uncommon. Half of all women have no symptoms by 5 weeks of pregnancy, but only 10 percent are 8 weeks pregnant with no symptoms. If you don't feel pregnant (or have symptoms that come and go), rest assured that if you've had a positive pregnancy test, you're most likely pregnant. Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. how to scan for divergence You won't be able to feel anything yet but your baby is regularly moving around from about 8 weeks of pregnancy. Your baby's brain is sending messages to growing muscles, telling them to work, which in turn helps your baby to grow. Your baby is surrounded by cushioning amniotic fluid, acting as protection from any bumps and pressure. 13 to 15 weeksHi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. For most women, 11 DPO is too early to feel any pregnancy symptoms Pregnancy Symptoms 5 DPO, 6. I wasn't expecting it at 7dpo!. AF Type Cramps at 5/6dpo?. Its very definately happening and is not just my imagination going overdrive. ... BFP on cycle 5, 13 11 dpo bfn then bfp If you have a history of pregnancy loss , don't ignore Jan 18, 2019 ...Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. crime rates in canada by city It was updated on November 26, 2020 by Ariane Signer. Many pregnant women will not experience the stereotypical symptoms that generally accompany pregnancy. Nausea, … ex came back after rebound reddit Jan 20, 2023 · Jan 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM. I have had a super hard pregnancy. I'm only 29 weeks. Baby is measuring 12 days ahead, and no one will change the due date. My mental health has taken a toll. I have never felt sicker for the first trimester before. I am having regular contractions with no clear medical cause. I don't sleep well. Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. churchill square car park Doulas are individuals who support women and families to try and help them have a positive experience of pregnancy, birth and the first few weeks, or even months, of newborn life. They can support women in all kinds of labour situations and different kinds of births, from home deliveries to c-sections, and then help support them in their early ...Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. newstalk1010Nearly 17 weeks and dont feel pregnant anymore, can anyone relate and explain. e. EmilyF2310. Posted 18/9/17. So i will be 17 weeks pregnant in about 2 days, my bump seems to have shrunk, i started feeling baby move really early, about 12 weeks as this is my second child, and the movements have been getting stronger but the past 3 days i havnt ...Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. I don't feel pregnant either. I'll be 16 weeks on Friday. I have no symptoms other than a growing waistline and bustline. I felt the baby move a few times, but I haven't felt anything in the last ... best darwin award winners Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. 17 weeks and bloating bad! Hey I'll be 17 weeks on Friday and for the last 2 weeks I've been bloating really bad. Its my 2nd baby and when pregnant with my first this didn't happen. Its getting to the point now where I feel really down because I feel disgusting and im constantly uncomfortable. I feel like I always need to burp.. fortigate memory conserve mode Hi everyone. So I'm 32 weeks today and I've woken up with what I imagine is some type of cold. But the strange thing is. My belly hurts and feels so tender. So does my back. To the point of touching it. I've felt baby move once. Which isn't too strange for the time. I'm just a bit concerned about the tender feeling. Pink Sweat$ - 17 [Official Music Video] - YouTube 0:00 / 3:00 #PinkSweats #AtMyWorst #PinkPlanet Pink Sweat$ - 17 [Official Music Video] Pink Sweats 1.78M subscribers 11M views 2 years ago...6 weeks and suddenly not feeling pregnant anymore!! 18 answers / Last post: 03/11/2016 at 5:29 am. Anonymous. 31/10/2016 at 6:24 pm. Hi all ... I'm now 9+3 and still don't feel pregnant, try to relax and enjoy feeling good because you never know they could all hit at once. Wishing you lots of luck for a happy and healthy 9 months xx telegram otp bot Apr 29, 2016 · 29/04/2016 at 2:54 am. Hi all, Looking for some reassurance. I am 17 weeks pregnant and up until last week I had bad morning sickness and my tummy was starting to go a bit round and a little harder. I was also feeling butterfly feelings for about 2 weeks. This week I am on holiday so am very relaxed and not doing much. April 2021 Birth Club 17 weeks and don’t feel pregnant. s. Sazj88im 38 and just over 13 weeks pregnant after a MC last year. We are over the moon but it's been so stressful for me. At 7 weeks i had spotting so went for a private scan and everything was all good. Few days later I had a kidney size clot fall out of me and a gush of blood. Went for a scan and again everything was all. is the rangers game live on rangers tv I've got to 17 weeks and should be feeling excited but I am worrying that I don't seem to have any pregnancy symptoms really. The only thing I still have from the 1st trimester is not wanting to eat pasta. I keep reading things saying about feeling movement or flutters but I haven't felt that. Is it normal to not feel much? ThanksJan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. master pin code 2022. 10. 7. ... woman's friend feeling her pregnant belly ... “He finally felt her at 23 weeks, but he didn't like to push on my belly and she didn't always ...2019. 9. 11. ... It's normal not to show until 20 weeks or even 26 weeks. It's also normal to not "feel pregnant" in the second trimester. It's a weird time. warm home discount eon 2022. 7. 1. ... But it could still be a few weeks, so don't worry. ... need to talk about the pregnancy more than your partner does; not feel like sex as ...17 weeks and bloating bad! Hey I'll be 17 weeks on Friday and for the last 2 weeks I've been bloating really bad. Its my 2nd baby and when pregnant with my first this didn't happen. Its getting to the point now where I feel really down because I feel disgusting and im constantly uncomfortable. I feel like I always need to burp.. toyota highlander brakes Jan 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM. I have had a super hard pregnancy. I'm only 29 weeks. Baby is measuring 12 days ahead, and no one will change the due date. My mental health has taken a toll. I have never felt sicker for the first trimester before. I am having regular contractions with no clear medical cause. I don't sleep well.Jun 8, 2022 · By week 17, your body is showing signs of being pregnant. You’ll probably notice it’s not only your belly getting bigger, but your hormones and milk-producing glands are also developing to get your body ready to feed your baby. Right now your ovaries are also releasing a hormone called relaxin. Jan 19, 2023 · Suddenly don't feel ready. Hi everyone I'm 36 weeks pregnant and I'm having so much anxiety knowing that I'm gonna be responsible for another human being I've been so fine this was a planned pregnancy and now I'm terrified incase I don't know what to do or don't have anything I need. Normal!!! :) aw it will all be fine. what is the most played song at a funeral Ireland Baldwin isn’t changing her ways just because she’s pregnant. The queen of the racy Instagram selfie took to social media Monday night to share a series of photos showing off her baby ...They do not increase in pain level. If you are unsure whether your contractions are labor pains or Braxton-Hicks, call your doctor.Aug 23, 2021 · would love to hear from people who have felt the same but went and had a check up or scan and all was ok. I don’t “feel” pregnant. Like I don’t know how I should feel but I don’t feel like I’m growing, I don’t feel baby yet and don’t know I just thought I would have more feelings to remind me I am pregnant. Hey yummy mummy's and mummy's to be. I'm 17+3 and obviously know I'm pregnant. Is it normal to know your pregnant but simply not "feel" it. Got all th... funny cat decal id roblox Messages: 76. Likes Received: 0. Girls... I'm 6 full weeks along and I don't feel preggy!!! I mean, I am tired at the end of the day and emotional and have an occasional AF type cramp but that's it. Generally I feel totally normal. I went to my "info" meeting at my OB last week and she told me usually at 6 weeks is when I'll start feeling some ...2019. 8. 13. ... I don't think you should feel guilty as the doc will have given you antibiotics that wouldn't affect your baby. (Usha). Thus when discussing the ...According to American Pregnancy, a transvaginal ultrasound may be able to detect a pregnancy as early as 4 weeks of gestation. It will take at least a week longer to detect any proof of pregnancy with a transabdominal ultrasound.Nearly 17 weeks and dont feel pregnant anymore, can anyone relate and explain. e. EmilyF2310. Posted 18/9/17. So i will be 17 weeks pregnant in about 2 days, my bump seems to have shrunk, i started feeling baby move really early, about 12 weeks as this is my second child, and the movements have been getting stronger but the past 3 days i havnt ... screwfix vertical radiators Jan 20, 2023 · Jan 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM. I have had a super hard pregnancy. I'm only 29 weeks. Baby is measuring 12 days ahead, and no one will change the due date. My mental health has taken a toll. I have never felt sicker for the first trimester before. I am having regular contractions with no clear medical cause. I don't sleep well. 2021. 11. 1. ... What Can You Do About Frequent Urination During Pregnancy? Pregnancy can come with many changes that often do not fully improve until delivery.2022. 7. 1. ... But it could still be a few weeks, so don't worry. ... need to talk about the pregnancy more than your partner does; not feel like sex as ... storing hash rosin in fridge Jan 14, 2010 · Im kinda worried right now, im 17 weeks pregnant i have had an early u/s and the baby had a nice strong heartbeat and was moving all over the place i then heard the heartbeat weeks later at my doc office, anyway i was super sick for my first trimester and my boobs ached real bad, but now i feel nothing! im worried has anyone else felt like this? … burlesque costumes They do not increase in pain level. If you are unsure whether your contractions are labor pains or Braxton-Hicks, call your doctor.Jan 20, 2023 · Jan 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM. I have had a super hard pregnancy. I'm only 29 weeks. Baby is measuring 12 days ahead, and no one will change the due date. My mental health has taken a toll. I have never felt sicker for the first trimester before. I am having regular contractions with no clear medical cause. I don't sleep well. best guest friendly hotels in phuket Pain, bleeding or spotting. Pain in pregnancy doesn't always mean that there is a problem. Some women feel discomfort as ligaments stretch with the growing ...The downside is that people feel free to intrude into your life. Try to let it wash over you. 2. Don't listen to other women's bad birth stories. Some women hang around, Ancient Mariner-like ...Jun 8, 2022 · By week 17, your body is showing signs of being pregnant. You’ll probably notice it’s not only your belly getting bigger, but your hormones and milk-producing glands are also developing to get your body ready to feed your baby. Right now your ovaries are also releasing a hormone called relaxin. The number 17 is more than just a prime number, though – If you add the first four prime numbers together, their sum is 17. 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